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Anthony Joseph: 'I want to create a feeling, some un-nameable force in people'

By Samantha Cox

Anthony Joseph is a British poet and author whose work is frequently described as �avant-garde.� His experimental and challenging work, which pushes the boundaries of literary and cultural genres, draws on his Trinidadian heritage but also examines what it means to be a person of African origin living in the UK and elsewhere. Ahead of a reading and discussion in Vienna on 23 Nov (Mon), he spoke to the Austrian Times about the processes that shape his work and how his aesthetics relate to his politics.

Joseph was born in Trinidad � a former British colony - in the 1960s, but moved to the UK in 1989 when still in his early twenties. He made the trip by himself, he says, choosing to leave Trinidad partly to achieve success as a writer � which was, at the time, much easier in a large city such as London - but also because in the 1970s and �80s it was a common dream amongst his generation to move to �the big city�.

It�s a common story among those who migrated from the Caribbean to Britain at a time when many of these countries were still in the throes of a colonial education system and culture. But, asked whether this is still the case, Joseph pauses and says: "Actually, I think it�s changed."

Although his generation were often �desperate to leave�, since the attempted coup in 1990 people are now, Joseph says, �thinking more about what it means to be a Trinidadian�. This development of national identity, along with the country�s improved economy � it is now one of the richest countries in the Caribbean � means that people are no longer so eager to go elsewhere.

Joseph now lives in Camberwell in South London, an area which has such a community feel that it makes him feel �home away from home.� Having been in Britain for twenty years, he has often been labelled as a �black British� writer, even appearing as part of the historic Great Day photo organised by the Arts Council of England in 2004, which brought together the most influential black and Asian writers in Britain at the time.

However, while he recognises the potential of labels such as �black� or �black British� to celebrate the presence of black and Asian culture, he is cynical regarding the motivations for their use, describing them as �marketing terms�. He observes that in Britain, for example, the major publishing houses are still failing to publish a significant proportion of black writers.

The problem with such labels being placed on writers is that they often create an expectation for political impetus. Recently many writers and academics have taken issue with the way in which writing from the African diaspora � people of African origin living in other countries across the world � is often rejected or unsuccessful when it doesn�t deal with the themes a black writer is expected to deal with.

In actual fact, in the UK at least, for Joseph � and, he suspects, many other black people living in the country today � politics and racism are not at the forefront of their minds. "If you�re sensitive to it, you can see it all the time," he says, "but most people just get on with their lives". Asked if he thought that racism had lessened since he arrived in 1989, he said: "I couldn�t see the racism at first. I was just getting on with my life � I guess I still am � just insular, absorbed in my own world and writing poetry."

Racism still exists in Britain, of course, but according to Joseph it now operates in more subtle ways, in "the establishment, the underground, the history�" It is a small minority who still "struggle against" race politics, he says, although this is still an important thing to do.

I suggest that the situation also varies from city to city, with London, which has faced decades of migration from different places around the world, seemingly more accepting than other locations around the country. It is also different, of course, in more rural areas.

Joseph agrees that levels of acceptance vary across the country, but adds that at the same time, "I�ve heard stories about people living in communities with no other black people, their kids attending school, and they�re fine. They�re getting on fine".

Joseph�s cross-Atlantic style is in many ways inextricably linked to the art and poetics of the African diaspora. However, he disassociates himself from the arguments common to academic discussions of these art forms. One of his recent books, "The African History of UFOs", is, he says, a "tongue-in-cheek satire" on the pointlessness of questions such as "how black you can get?" and "what is blackness?". He and other writers, he says, can "stand back and laugh at them fighting it out."

A friend tells him, he says, that he tackles race politics "sideways, through the effect it has on language". It is perhaps this attention to language that gives Joseph�s work a very oral quality - it begs to be read out loud, through its use of rhythm and alliteration, and frequently emulates the patterns of speech. However, he does not particularly ally himself with the "slam" or spoken-word artists that many would associate with contemporary black writing in Britain and the US. "I�m not really into that scene," he says.

Rather than placing emphasis on improvisation and spontaneity � two elements key to these kinds of poetry - he says that a great deal of deliberation goes into his work before it is put to paper and then, eventually, performed out loud.

"I start from the page," he says, "and if it works from the page, then I read it". "I believe in editing a lot, working on something for a long time, and saying something that hasn�t been said before. For me the challenge is to make it intellectually interesting."

Joseph has performed in countries across Europe and did a tour of universities in German-speaking countries two years ago, during which he spoke at Vienna University. I wonder how his complex, experimental work goes down in countries where English is not the native language.

"On an emotional level," he says, it is received "in the same way" as in the UK and US. Nevertheless, he understands that people might not understand every word. However, for Joseph this does not entail a breakdown of communication but rather shapes an alternative way of getting his message across.

In these cases the emphasis, he says, shifts to "the feeling, the vibe, the sound and the energy rather than the lyrical content". Citing the famous Caribbean literary figure Kamau Braithwaite, who "wanted to create sculpture in the air", he says he wants to "create a feeling, some un-nameable force in people" that they can feel "without knowing exactly what the story is."

Anthony Joseph is currently on a European tour ending with a reading at the University of Vienna on Nov 23rd (Mon). He will read poems from his latest work, Bird Head Sun.

Austrian Times

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culture spoke writer Anthony British politics racism African experimental Vienna Europe frequently emphasis Caribbean Britain London Trinidadian Joseph pushes nameable

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